One of the participants here sent me this ebay item. It purportedly depicts a Japanese cavalryman, although for soem reason I wonder if it isn't a Chinese trooper:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2131555954
Pat
Japanese Cavalryman
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Photo is a bit blurry (and faded I suspect), but I'd say the subject is a Japanese trooper. The uniform, saddle and weapons weapons would offer conclusive proof, but these are not to be clearly discerned from the photo. The hat, however, closely resembles (in shape - accoutrements are also difficult to identify) the standard pre-war/war headgear of the Imperial Japanese Army.
Hey all
An interesting image and yes its Japanese cavalry.The single cartridge pouch on the right hand side supported by a wide strap and the narrow left strap is supporting the sword scabbard worn on the belt and not the saddle.
The Japanese employed a fair amount of Cav in China but few Cavalry were employed in the Pacific area.A single Cavalry regiment was part of a Japanese Infantry Divisions Order of Battle.The Japanese also employed cavalry at Brigade level(2 Regiments)
Hope this helps
Sam
Sam Cox
An interesting image and yes its Japanese cavalry.The single cartridge pouch on the right hand side supported by a wide strap and the narrow left strap is supporting the sword scabbard worn on the belt and not the saddle.
The Japanese employed a fair amount of Cav in China but few Cavalry were employed in the Pacific area.A single Cavalry regiment was part of a Japanese Infantry Divisions Order of Battle.The Japanese also employed cavalry at Brigade level(2 Regiments)
Hope this helps
Sam
Sam Cox
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Hey all
An interesting image and yes its Japanese cavalry.The single cartridge pouch on the right hand side supported by a wide strap and the narrow left strap is supporting the sword scabbard worn on the belt and not the saddle.
The Japanese employed a fair amount of Cav in China but few Cavalry were employed in the Pacific area.A single Cavalry regiment was part of a Japanese Infantry Divisions Order of Battle.The Japanese also employed cavalry at Brigade level(2 Regiments)
Hope this helps
Sam
Sam Cox
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Sam,
Timely information, thank you. Could this explain the reference in the book, GHOST SOLDIERS, which has been previously reviewed in another thread, which mentioned a large transport ship filled with prisoners of war shut up in a hold full of horse manure from Japanese cavalry? The ship was leaving Manilla with prisoners at the time. Previously, the horses would have had to be deployed to China, then the ship ordered to Manilla for POW transport, I'm thinking. Does this make senseor have merit?
At your(mounted)service,
Paul Scholtz
Hey all
An interesting image and yes its Japanese cavalry.The single cartridge pouch on the right hand side supported by a wide strap and the narrow left strap is supporting the sword scabbard worn on the belt and not the saddle.
The Japanese employed a fair amount of Cav in China but few Cavalry were employed in the Pacific area.A single Cavalry regiment was part of a Japanese Infantry Divisions Order of Battle.The Japanese also employed cavalry at Brigade level(2 Regiments)
Hope this helps
Sam
Sam Cox
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Sam,
Timely information, thank you. Could this explain the reference in the book, GHOST SOLDIERS, which has been previously reviewed in another thread, which mentioned a large transport ship filled with prisoners of war shut up in a hold full of horse manure from Japanese cavalry? The ship was leaving Manilla with prisoners at the time. Previously, the horses would have had to be deployed to China, then the ship ordered to Manilla for POW transport, I'm thinking. Does this make senseor have merit?
At your(mounted)service,
Paul Scholtz
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Hey all
An interesting image and yes its Japanese cavalry.The single cartridge pouch on the right hand side supported by a wide strap and the narrow left strap is supporting the sword scabbard worn on the belt and not the saddle.
The Japanese employed a fair amount of Cav in China but few Cavalry were employed in the Pacific area.A single Cavalry regiment was part of a Japanese Infantry Divisions Order of Battle.The Japanese also employed cavalry at Brigade level(2 Regiments)
Hope this helps
Sam
Sam Cox
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Sam, thanks. Are you aware of any of the details of Japanese use of cavalry in China? We've posted on the topic here before with little success. Any details would be appreciated.
Was the organic cavalry in infantry formations deployed in the Pacific? If yes, was it mounted at any point, or dismounted throughout the war?
Pat
Hey all
An interesting image and yes its Japanese cavalry.The single cartridge pouch on the right hand side supported by a wide strap and the narrow left strap is supporting the sword scabbard worn on the belt and not the saddle.
The Japanese employed a fair amount of Cav in China but few Cavalry were employed in the Pacific area.A single Cavalry regiment was part of a Japanese Infantry Divisions Order of Battle.The Japanese also employed cavalry at Brigade level(2 Regiments)
Hope this helps
Sam
Sam Cox
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Sam, thanks. Are you aware of any of the details of Japanese use of cavalry in China? We've posted on the topic here before with little success. Any details would be appreciated.
Was the organic cavalry in infantry formations deployed in the Pacific? If yes, was it mounted at any point, or dismounted throughout the war?
Pat
Hey Chaps
Sadly i cant yield any further info on this one,i have what apears to be an excellant book on the Japanese army during the second show but not an ounce is in English(doh).Great photos however and thats why im so sure the featured photo is Japanese.I wouldnt be surprised if Japanese Cavalry was used in the SWPA but im sure the use would have been limited.Japanese officers wore riding boots and spurs even when dismounted(more as a a badge of office than anything else) and most staff oficers paraded on horse.They did make large use of cavalry in China prior to the war against the Commonwealth and friends.Many aspects of the second world war i find compelling and my thirst for knowledge has no limit but the holocaust that Japan unleashed in China and then the Pacific repulses me and i just cant get interested.I know this is a strong statement and the Japan of 65 years back has nothing in common with the Japan of today,i meant no offence to anyone and understand completely if this post gets wiped.
Regards
sam
Sam Cox
Sadly i cant yield any further info on this one,i have what apears to be an excellant book on the Japanese army during the second show but not an ounce is in English(doh).Great photos however and thats why im so sure the featured photo is Japanese.I wouldnt be surprised if Japanese Cavalry was used in the SWPA but im sure the use would have been limited.Japanese officers wore riding boots and spurs even when dismounted(more as a a badge of office than anything else) and most staff oficers paraded on horse.They did make large use of cavalry in China prior to the war against the Commonwealth and friends.Many aspects of the second world war i find compelling and my thirst for knowledge has no limit but the holocaust that Japan unleashed in China and then the Pacific repulses me and i just cant get interested.I know this is a strong statement and the Japan of 65 years back has nothing in common with the Japan of today,i meant no offence to anyone and understand completely if this post gets wiped.
Regards
sam
Sam Cox
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Sam:
You are merely stating facts. Many Asian nations are disturbed by the fact that the record of the Japanese in the pre-war period has been so largely ignored. A few years back there was a big furor when the Chinese and Koreans found out that very little about it is said in Japanese textbooks. Today's Germans are friends and allies, yet we talk openly about some horrible aspects of the record of the NAZI regime. So it should be with the Japanese. The Rape of Nanking and brutal episodes in the history of the Manchuko army are part of the historical record, as are the subsequent horrors of the non-Japanese regimes that followed in Burma, China, North Korea, and Cambodia.
Joe
You are merely stating facts. Many Asian nations are disturbed by the fact that the record of the Japanese in the pre-war period has been so largely ignored. A few years back there was a big furor when the Chinese and Koreans found out that very little about it is said in Japanese textbooks. Today's Germans are friends and allies, yet we talk openly about some horrible aspects of the record of the NAZI regime. So it should be with the Japanese. The Rape of Nanking and brutal episodes in the history of the Manchuko army are part of the historical record, as are the subsequent horrors of the non-Japanese regimes that followed in Burma, China, North Korea, and Cambodia.
Joe
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Sam:
You are merely stating facts. Many Asian nations are disturbed by the fact that the record of the Japanese in the pre-war period has been so largely ignored. A few years back there was a big furor when the Chinese and Koreans found out that very little about it is said in Japanese textbooks. Today's Germans are friends and allies, yet we talk openly about some horrible aspects of the record of the NAZI regime. So it should be with the Japanese. The Rape of Nanking and brutal episodes in the history of the Manchuko army are part of the historical record, as are the subsequent horrors of the non-Japanese regimes that followed in Burma, China, North Korea, and Cambodia.
Joe
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Indeed, Joe is quite correct. In away, I think that similiar feelings that many of us have on the horror of these particular events, combined with efforts of various nations to more or less conceal or forget what occured, has made this a difficult area to study. The lack of attention to it is unfortunate, as the lack of study on it means that part of the picture of what was occuring in the post WWI world is sort of missing. How peculiar that, post 1918, so many nations would abandon democratic reforms and yield to the horror of totaltolitarian regimes, whether they be termed communist, facist or nationalist; the USSR, Germany and Japan given us examples of each.
Pat
Sam:
You are merely stating facts. Many Asian nations are disturbed by the fact that the record of the Japanese in the pre-war period has been so largely ignored. A few years back there was a big furor when the Chinese and Koreans found out that very little about it is said in Japanese textbooks. Today's Germans are friends and allies, yet we talk openly about some horrible aspects of the record of the NAZI regime. So it should be with the Japanese. The Rape of Nanking and brutal episodes in the history of the Manchuko army are part of the historical record, as are the subsequent horrors of the non-Japanese regimes that followed in Burma, China, North Korea, and Cambodia.
Joe
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Indeed, Joe is quite correct. In away, I think that similiar feelings that many of us have on the horror of these particular events, combined with efforts of various nations to more or less conceal or forget what occured, has made this a difficult area to study. The lack of attention to it is unfortunate, as the lack of study on it means that part of the picture of what was occuring in the post WWI world is sort of missing. How peculiar that, post 1918, so many nations would abandon democratic reforms and yield to the horror of totaltolitarian regimes, whether they be termed communist, facist or nationalist; the USSR, Germany and Japan given us examples of each.
Pat
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The lack of attention to it is unfortunate, as the lack of study on it means that part of the picture of what was occuring in the post WWI world is sort of missing. How peculiar that, post 1918, so many nations would abandon democratic reforms and yield to the horror of totaltolitarian regimes, whether they be termed communist, facist or nationalist; the USSR, Germany and Japan given us examples of each.
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Not that it's real applicable here, but I would suggest that communist, fascist, or ultra-nationalist are all the children of a common doctrine or "theology" that came out of the 19th century - they are all the inevitable result of humanism. But that's a whole 'nother bucket of fish.
Todd H.
The lack of attention to it is unfortunate, as the lack of study on it means that part of the picture of what was occuring in the post WWI world is sort of missing. How peculiar that, post 1918, so many nations would abandon democratic reforms and yield to the horror of totaltolitarian regimes, whether they be termed communist, facist or nationalist; the USSR, Germany and Japan given us examples of each.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Not that it's real applicable here, but I would suggest that communist, fascist, or ultra-nationalist are all the children of a common doctrine or "theology" that came out of the 19th century - they are all the inevitable result of humanism. But that's a whole 'nother bucket of fish.
Todd H.
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The lack of attention to it is unfortunate, as the lack of study on it means that part of the picture of what was occuring in the post WWI world is sort of missing. How peculiar that, post 1918, so many nations would abandon democratic reforms and yield to the horror of totaltolitarian regimes, whether they be termed communist, facist or nationalist; the USSR, Germany and Japan given us examples of each.
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Not that it's real applicable here, but I would suggest that communist, fascist, or ultra-nationalist are all the children of a common doctrine or "theology" that came out of the 19th century - they are all the inevitable result of humanism. But that's a whole 'nother bucket of fish.
Todd H.
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Todd,
I quite agree with you on all points, in this really loused up "politically correct" world, mighty few are willing to admit the Theological connection that drives ideas good and bad. I'd love to pursue that privately with you.
I understand completely Sams' revulsion at the carnage left behind from the Empire, and no affecianado of Democracy would just shrug it off. I saw it in Vietnam, My Dad saw it in Germany with the 4th Cavalry. I do, however, thoruoghly enjoy the study of Mounted Warfare even of our enemies, and believe there is much to learn. For instance, I just obtained a book about THE CAVALRY OF THE WIERMACT, obviously about German Cavalry in WW II, and notice that Hitler's Cavalry was making mistakes with equipment and tactics in l944 that Allied Cavalry had corrected as early as 19l6. Their remount system was superior to any in the world, and the German Army never hurt for Horses in WW II, even though they ran out of petroleum, never did issue thier men much for rain protection, and shot thier own wounded. Don't know if anyone had done a review of this book, it was printed in 1995, and just recently tanslated to English, but I'd sure like a chance. My Father's unit captured a huge German remount depot, and after the Occupation began and Dad was re-asasigned to the Constabulary Force because of his riding ability and fluency in the German Language, he met some of the same horses he captured.
A good study of our enemies might also prevent us from ever becoming as they were. Good precaution. A minister of the Gospel's rambling thoughts. Humanism is indeed the seedbed of tyrany.
At your(mounted)service,
Paul Scholtz
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The lack of attention to it is unfortunate, as the lack of study on it means that part of the picture of what was occuring in the post WWI world is sort of missing. How peculiar that, post 1918, so many nations would abandon democratic reforms and yield to the horror of totaltolitarian regimes, whether they be termed communist, facist or nationalist; the USSR, Germany and Japan given us examples of each.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Not that it's real applicable here, but I would suggest that communist, fascist, or ultra-nationalist are all the children of a common doctrine or "theology" that came out of the 19th century - they are all the inevitable result of humanism. But that's a whole 'nother bucket of fish.
Todd H.
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Todd,
I quite agree with you on all points, in this really loused up "politically correct" world, mighty few are willing to admit the Theological connection that drives ideas good and bad. I'd love to pursue that privately with you.
I understand completely Sams' revulsion at the carnage left behind from the Empire, and no affecianado of Democracy would just shrug it off. I saw it in Vietnam, My Dad saw it in Germany with the 4th Cavalry. I do, however, thoruoghly enjoy the study of Mounted Warfare even of our enemies, and believe there is much to learn. For instance, I just obtained a book about THE CAVALRY OF THE WIERMACT, obviously about German Cavalry in WW II, and notice that Hitler's Cavalry was making mistakes with equipment and tactics in l944 that Allied Cavalry had corrected as early as 19l6. Their remount system was superior to any in the world, and the German Army never hurt for Horses in WW II, even though they ran out of petroleum, never did issue thier men much for rain protection, and shot thier own wounded. Don't know if anyone had done a review of this book, it was printed in 1995, and just recently tanslated to English, but I'd sure like a chance. My Father's unit captured a huge German remount depot, and after the Occupation began and Dad was re-asasigned to the Constabulary Force because of his riding ability and fluency in the German Language, he met some of the same horses he captured.
A good study of our enemies might also prevent us from ever becoming as they were. Good precaution. A minister of the Gospel's rambling thoughts. Humanism is indeed the seedbed of tyrany.
At your(mounted)service,
Paul Scholtz
Hmmm
This thread has flowered and who would have thought?
I agree that noone has a clean slate and you guys are correct learn from your mistakes an learn from those of your(former) enemy
Best to all
Sam
Sam Cox
Edited by - Sam Cox on 08/23/2002 06:32:20
This thread has flowered and who would have thought?
I agree that noone has a clean slate and you guys are correct learn from your mistakes an learn from those of your(former) enemy
Best to all
Sam
Sam Cox
Edited by - Sam Cox on 08/23/2002 06:32:20
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Was the Japanese Army modeled on a western army? It seems to me that their navy, at least at the time of the Russo-Japanese War, was modeled on the British navy, with the Russian navy being modeled on the French navy. What about their army? In some ways it is sort of a WWII oddity, modern in some ways, and not in others. Sam's reference to organic cavalry in infantry formations made me recall the German army, which also featured organic cavlary in infantry units. The Germans, however, had actually been advisors to the Chinese up in to the 1930s, and even after the Japanese where signatories to a treaty with the Germans.
And what of the Chinese? Did they make much use of cavalry in their long war with the Japanese, or indeed any use of cavalry?
Pat
And what of the Chinese? Did they make much use of cavalry in their long war with the Japanese, or indeed any use of cavalry?
Pat
Hmmm
Well the German infantry regiment included a Rider Troop,the Rider Troop wore the Infantry colour of white on there insignia.This led to the nickname White Riders.The Rider Troop was used as mobile recon(the troops 1st mission),communications(2nd mission),mobile reinforcements and security.They were considered horse infantry but recieved complete cavalry training and for the invasion of France many carried sabres!!!!.
As the war progressed the German military used horses more rather than less(the reverse of contempary thinking).That the Germans used Troop( a horse platoon being attached to each of the regiments battalions) sized horse units in Infantry regiments is very interesting and may have influenced the use of Horse Recon by the 10th Mountain Division.A German Mountain division of WW2 had a Cavalry regiment.
The only thing i know for sure about the Japanese use of Cav in an infantry division was that the Cav Regiment would be dismantled and squadrons attached to each of the infantry regiments(3 in total)and the 4th Squadron would be used as the strategic point troops of any break throughs.
The Chinese did use Cavalry during the invasion of 1931.They also used Cavalry towards the end of 43( i have somewher here a cavalry journal with a good article on the action).Also worth mentioning that Russian Cavalry and Japanese Cavalry saw mounted combat very near wars end.
Regards to all
Sam
P.S there is an excellant book called
WILL WE SEE TOMORROW by Max Kuhnert(spell check)about the experience of a German Cavlryman attached to the Rider Troop of an infantry regiment.It was actually very well written and quite moving in parts
Sam Cox
Edited by - Sam Cox on 08/23/2002 06:52:27
Well the German infantry regiment included a Rider Troop,the Rider Troop wore the Infantry colour of white on there insignia.This led to the nickname White Riders.The Rider Troop was used as mobile recon(the troops 1st mission),communications(2nd mission),mobile reinforcements and security.They were considered horse infantry but recieved complete cavalry training and for the invasion of France many carried sabres!!!!.
As the war progressed the German military used horses more rather than less(the reverse of contempary thinking).That the Germans used Troop( a horse platoon being attached to each of the regiments battalions) sized horse units in Infantry regiments is very interesting and may have influenced the use of Horse Recon by the 10th Mountain Division.A German Mountain division of WW2 had a Cavalry regiment.
The only thing i know for sure about the Japanese use of Cav in an infantry division was that the Cav Regiment would be dismantled and squadrons attached to each of the infantry regiments(3 in total)and the 4th Squadron would be used as the strategic point troops of any break throughs.
The Chinese did use Cavalry during the invasion of 1931.They also used Cavalry towards the end of 43( i have somewher here a cavalry journal with a good article on the action).Also worth mentioning that Russian Cavalry and Japanese Cavalry saw mounted combat very near wars end.
Regards to all
Sam
P.S there is an excellant book called
WILL WE SEE TOMORROW by Max Kuhnert(spell check)about the experience of a German Cavlryman attached to the Rider Troop of an infantry regiment.It was actually very well written and quite moving in parts
Sam Cox
Edited by - Sam Cox on 08/23/2002 06:52:27
Sam,
Since America suddenly became so vulnerable on September 11 last, the anxiety and revulsion that Austrailia must have felt at the Imperial Japanese carnage so close by is now shared with you. Col. Ramsey of 26th Cavalry Regiment fame shares similar thoughts regarding the Philipine people he is endearded to from the war years, having watched the horribkle fruit of Shintoism for 3 and a half years. I am grateful these things are behind and hopeful that men like JOe, Pat, Ron, You and I can learn fromths awful stuff.
Let's get off that, shall we? I'm to old to even relive those battles in my mind. I am curious as to what the Japanese Cavalry did for remounts. The horse in the picture that started all this looks remarkabley like an occidental Cavalry horse, and Japan is not exactly famous for horse production. Horse attrition would naturally be high in an invasion scenerio, and the Chinese horses would be much smaller than what the picture would show us. Could these men have extensively used captured British horses, as the Brits fared poorly at Singapore and must have had considerable equine resourses there? I am absolutely shooting in the dark here, but I have no idea where the Japanese would have gotten War horses in sizeable numbers.
At your(mounted)service,
Paul Scholtz
Since America suddenly became so vulnerable on September 11 last, the anxiety and revulsion that Austrailia must have felt at the Imperial Japanese carnage so close by is now shared with you. Col. Ramsey of 26th Cavalry Regiment fame shares similar thoughts regarding the Philipine people he is endearded to from the war years, having watched the horribkle fruit of Shintoism for 3 and a half years. I am grateful these things are behind and hopeful that men like JOe, Pat, Ron, You and I can learn fromths awful stuff.
Let's get off that, shall we? I'm to old to even relive those battles in my mind. I am curious as to what the Japanese Cavalry did for remounts. The horse in the picture that started all this looks remarkabley like an occidental Cavalry horse, and Japan is not exactly famous for horse production. Horse attrition would naturally be high in an invasion scenerio, and the Chinese horses would be much smaller than what the picture would show us. Could these men have extensively used captured British horses, as the Brits fared poorly at Singapore and must have had considerable equine resourses there? I am absolutely shooting in the dark here, but I have no idea where the Japanese would have gotten War horses in sizeable numbers.
At your(mounted)service,
Paul Scholtz
Hmmmm
Im not sure that its an Australain revulsion in general,i think the Australian revulsion is obviously directed more towards the treatment of its prisoners rather than the holocaust that was the invasion and then occupation of China.
As to the use of and aquring of remounts i can only guess.I know for sure that the Japanese Cavalry was established and very well organized at the time of Jap/Russo war and played a key role.The Japanese element of the Siberian Expeditionary Corps(1919 to 1922 protection of Foriegn interests in Russia.English,French,Canadians,Americans and Japanese actions against Bolshevik guerrilas immediatelt post the 1st show)contained a Squadron sized strength of Cavalry(while her allies used no Cavalry during this campaign at all).
The Japanese war machine arrived in China in 1931 and didnt leave until 1945.Cavalry was considered(rightly)to be the princible arm of service in a fluid battle scenario(especially the low tech warfare that typified the early campaign).The veterinary and remount service of the Japanese army had enough time to raise,breed and train all the horses they could use.Im 100% certain that they used domestic Chinese horses in large quantities,im not sure as to the horse breeds used prior to the invasion.One source also states that Japanese Cavalry also employed Mongol horsemen in the same way that the Germans used(maybe exploited)the Cossacks and Kalmuks of the Russian Steppe.
As a liner note to my previous post RE Jerry rider Troops its worth noting that the Germans also used a bicycle platoon in conjunction with the Rider troops.The bicycle platoon would travel by and secure sealed roads while the Rider troops would secure the flanks and perform its valuable task of peripheral reconaissance.The Japanes army also made great use of the bicycle,especially in SWPA.
Best to all
Sam
Sam Cox
Edited by - Sam Cox on 08/23/2002 16:43:47
Edited by - Sam Cox on 08/24/2002 03:34:35
Im not sure that its an Australain revulsion in general,i think the Australian revulsion is obviously directed more towards the treatment of its prisoners rather than the holocaust that was the invasion and then occupation of China.
As to the use of and aquring of remounts i can only guess.I know for sure that the Japanese Cavalry was established and very well organized at the time of Jap/Russo war and played a key role.The Japanese element of the Siberian Expeditionary Corps(1919 to 1922 protection of Foriegn interests in Russia.English,French,Canadians,Americans and Japanese actions against Bolshevik guerrilas immediatelt post the 1st show)contained a Squadron sized strength of Cavalry(while her allies used no Cavalry during this campaign at all).
The Japanese war machine arrived in China in 1931 and didnt leave until 1945.Cavalry was considered(rightly)to be the princible arm of service in a fluid battle scenario(especially the low tech warfare that typified the early campaign).The veterinary and remount service of the Japanese army had enough time to raise,breed and train all the horses they could use.Im 100% certain that they used domestic Chinese horses in large quantities,im not sure as to the horse breeds used prior to the invasion.One source also states that Japanese Cavalry also employed Mongol horsemen in the same way that the Germans used(maybe exploited)the Cossacks and Kalmuks of the Russian Steppe.
As a liner note to my previous post RE Jerry rider Troops its worth noting that the Germans also used a bicycle platoon in conjunction with the Rider troops.The bicycle platoon would travel by and secure sealed roads while the Rider troops would secure the flanks and perform its valuable task of peripheral reconaissance.The Japanes army also made great use of the bicycle,especially in SWPA.
Best to all
Sam
Sam Cox
Edited by - Sam Cox on 08/23/2002 16:43:47
Edited by - Sam Cox on 08/24/2002 03:34:35
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Sam, Great information, thanks. Your entries here greatly expand the amount of information we had on Japanese cavalry.
On Japanese mounts, I can't add anything at all, but I thought I'd note that there are a couple of Japanese breeds that were bred for military service early on. I don't have any idea as to any details of them, other than they are odd looking to my eye. One or more of these breeds may still have been bred for military purposes as late as WWII, although I don't know that to be the case. I would have to think that these could not have been the principal source of horse flesh to the Japanese Army. Given Japan's long presence on the Asian mainland, dating to the Russo-Japanese War, I would have to think there would have been some other source at least that early.
The information on Mongolian horsemen is fascinating.
On bicycles, as Sam notes, the Japanese Army was quite successful in employing them. At least a couple of the early WWII Japanese successes saw infantry advance with bicycles at fairly high rates.
Pat
On Japanese mounts, I can't add anything at all, but I thought I'd note that there are a couple of Japanese breeds that were bred for military service early on. I don't have any idea as to any details of them, other than they are odd looking to my eye. One or more of these breeds may still have been bred for military purposes as late as WWII, although I don't know that to be the case. I would have to think that these could not have been the principal source of horse flesh to the Japanese Army. Given Japan's long presence on the Asian mainland, dating to the Russo-Japanese War, I would have to think there would have been some other source at least that early.
The information on Mongolian horsemen is fascinating.
On bicycles, as Sam notes, the Japanese Army was quite successful in employing them. At least a couple of the early WWII Japanese successes saw infantry advance with bicycles at fairly high rates.
Pat
Hey all
This from the Cavalry Journal Regarding Japanese Cavalry
Page 12 of the July/February ,1942 Issue
The most recent confirmed information relative to Japanese cavalry is that they have 25 regiments-8 regiments of non divisional ,organized into brigades;and seventeen regiments of divisional cavalry.Reliable but unconfirmed information however indicatesthat Japan now has aprox 61 Infantry divisions and that the divisional cavalry has been increases to 61 divisional cavalry regiments.Moreover recent Russian translations state that the Japanes expect to build up large forces of cavalry ,heavily reinforced to be used as independant cavlry.
The cavlry regiment infantry division consists of a HQ 2 squadrons ,train(pack) and probably a 2 gun section of 37 mm rapid fire antitank guns.
The cavalry regiment,pack division ,organization differs from the cavalry regiment infantry division only in its field train which consist of the following:115 enlisted men:79 horses,pack and riding:1 days ration and forage.
The non divisional cavalry regiment consisting of a HQ,4 troops and an MG Troop is comprised of 788 officers and men ;884 horese(riding and pack)680 carbines,6 lite MGs and 8 heavy MGs.This type of regiment is found in the independant cavalry brigades.Independant cavlry brigades include a brigade HQ 1 battery horse or pack Arti,armored car troop and a detachment of engineers.
The above is period info and may contain errors so if anyone can help or correct any of the above dont be shy.
The basic tactical cavalry doctrine from the Japanese perspective circa 1931 was basically the same as US and most European Cavalry of the period
The continuous offensive was preffered ,the envelopment was the preffered type of manouver and combined reconaissance with moblie reinforcements made it as modern as any other Cavalry.The idea of charging machine guns never occured to the Japanese Cavalry for the same reason that all cavalry rejected this moronic attitude,it was ridiculous and wastefull.
The Japanese cavlry was a highly capable self contained(in its brigade form)tip of the spear for any advance by its army.
Hope this helps
Sam
Sam Cox
This from the Cavalry Journal Regarding Japanese Cavalry
Page 12 of the July/February ,1942 Issue
The most recent confirmed information relative to Japanese cavalry is that they have 25 regiments-8 regiments of non divisional ,organized into brigades;and seventeen regiments of divisional cavalry.Reliable but unconfirmed information however indicatesthat Japan now has aprox 61 Infantry divisions and that the divisional cavalry has been increases to 61 divisional cavalry regiments.Moreover recent Russian translations state that the Japanes expect to build up large forces of cavalry ,heavily reinforced to be used as independant cavlry.
The cavlry regiment infantry division consists of a HQ 2 squadrons ,train(pack) and probably a 2 gun section of 37 mm rapid fire antitank guns.
The cavalry regiment,pack division ,organization differs from the cavalry regiment infantry division only in its field train which consist of the following:115 enlisted men:79 horses,pack and riding:1 days ration and forage.
The non divisional cavalry regiment consisting of a HQ,4 troops and an MG Troop is comprised of 788 officers and men ;884 horese(riding and pack)680 carbines,6 lite MGs and 8 heavy MGs.This type of regiment is found in the independant cavalry brigades.Independant cavlry brigades include a brigade HQ 1 battery horse or pack Arti,armored car troop and a detachment of engineers.
The above is period info and may contain errors so if anyone can help or correct any of the above dont be shy.
The basic tactical cavalry doctrine from the Japanese perspective circa 1931 was basically the same as US and most European Cavalry of the period
The continuous offensive was preffered ,the envelopment was the preffered type of manouver and combined reconaissance with moblie reinforcements made it as modern as any other Cavalry.The idea of charging machine guns never occured to the Japanese Cavalry for the same reason that all cavalry rejected this moronic attitude,it was ridiculous and wastefull.
The Japanese cavlry was a highly capable self contained(in its brigade form)tip of the spear for any advance by its army.
Hope this helps
Sam
Sam Cox
Gents, our computer has been down for the last two weeks, and I have rally been out of the loop. This is eveidenced by how much valuable material has been dispersed by Forum participants in the time that has passed. What a wealth of facts and opinions.
On this particular thread, I have an article from the October 2002 issue of MILITARY HERITAGE magizine, an organ of considerable credibility,from which I quote on page 54, regarding the Japanese invasion of New Guinea in July of l942; "On July 22 a landing force commanded by Maj. Gen. Tomitaro Horii, consisting of 2,000 troops, 1300 laborors, and 52 HORSES, sneaked ashore at Gona. The enemy quickly moved about nine miles down rhe coast and siezed Buna."
It is unclear from this account whether the horses were used for commanders of infantry, for possible courrier service, for Cavalry, of for draft purposes, but Japanese Mounted Service seems to have been represented there.
At your(mounted) service,
Paul Scholtz
At your(mounted)service,
Paul Scholtz
On this particular thread, I have an article from the October 2002 issue of MILITARY HERITAGE magizine, an organ of considerable credibility,from which I quote on page 54, regarding the Japanese invasion of New Guinea in July of l942; "On July 22 a landing force commanded by Maj. Gen. Tomitaro Horii, consisting of 2,000 troops, 1300 laborors, and 52 HORSES, sneaked ashore at Gona. The enemy quickly moved about nine miles down rhe coast and siezed Buna."
It is unclear from this account whether the horses were used for commanders of infantry, for possible courrier service, for Cavalry, of for draft purposes, but Japanese Mounted Service seems to have been represented there.
At your(mounted) service,
Paul Scholtz
At your(mounted)service,
Paul Scholtz
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"...a landing force...consiting of 2,000 troops, 1,300 laborers, and 52 horses SNEAKED..."
What a concept! What a world.
Joe
What a concept! What a world.
Joe